Russert is a fine interviewer - as close to a two-fisted interviewer as they come in the mainstream. He met the Dems in Dartmouth, and the results are reviewed live here.
How To Leave Iraq?
Russert’s first question was put to Obama, asking him how he’d redeploy the troops if troop levels remained in line with the Bush administration’s predictions. Obama gave a detailed answer as to how he’d deploy, beyond stating that his strategy involved an immediate drawdown and the placing of precedence on counter-terrorism and training activities, rather than broad security. I have the doubts about the tactical efficiency of this, as I’ve always felt so much of the ill in Iraq is due to too few troops.
I don’t have doubts about his strategic integrity though, as, when Russert asked directly, Obama said he may keep troops in Iraq into his second term. That’s the kind of determination anyone could respect.
Hillary, on the other hand, merely said she agreed with Obama that it was hard to predict the future, and didn’t go beyond that. I think Obama did a fine job of showing how one /can/ speak to the future without issuing impossible promises. In any event, she goes on to blame Bush and then closes by swearing to begin drawing down troops the moment she’s sworn in.
Edwards talks about even deeper cuts. He criticizes any “combat missions” - proposed by Clinton, in the context of counter-terrorism, prior to the debate - and notes he’d want only about a brigade of troops, 3,500, to protect the embassy. That would make the island sanctuary of the Green Zone smaller and nuttier than Gilligan’s Island. A brigade couldn’t secure us against that country’s collapse any more than the New Orleans levees could stand against Katrina. It’s simple numbers.
As for Edwards balancing the lack of troops with some awesome diplomacy that sways Iran and Saudi Arabia to not use that weakness to their advantage, well, I have little hope for his folksy populism winning over those ruthless realists.
Magic Carpet Ride
Russert then swivels the spotlight onto Richardson, and demands to know how he’d yank the troops out in less than six months without using the mystical secrets of the Orient. Richardson blabs about how the other Dems aren’t prioritizing it. Russert keeps on him, demanding to know how he’d bend the laws of physics.
It’s then that Russert admits that he’d have to leave some “light equipment” behind and would need to persuade Turkey to let our troops through. How driving through the Roman roads of Eastern Turkey would speed things up much, I don’t know, and I doubt Turkey would allow it gladly. More importantly, “light equipment” includes little things like assault weaponry, explosive ammunition and technology. A similar withdrawal - from Lebanon in the eighties - almost singlehandedly created the modern small arms market. What Richardson proposes would be a slow-motion Hiroshima for the world’s bush wars.
Biden talks of Obama’s attitude in principle. Dodd does the same with Richardson’s plan. I nod to one fellow and shake my head at the other. Biden also mentions that his plan won some 75 Senate votes, which is no mean sum and smells Veto proof. I’ll be running a follow-up article to see if it’s so.
Kucinich, when asked, talks a good game of enhancing peace, but I’m still not sold that sprinkling cash and goodwill on that country is going to do other than be sugaring a seething cauldron.
So far, the Dems, when pressed, have been forced to admit, “Yes, we may have to be in there in a big way five years down the line and without end.” The best of them - the only ones worth it - have a plan.
The Reps haven’t been pressed. And to a man, their plan is, “Just win.”
That’s not a plan. It’s not even victory at any cost. That’s a formula for disaster at any cost.
Speaking of which, Gravel mentions that the Congress is complicit in continuing the war, and seems to - at most - be simply using it as a chance to score political “anti-Bush” points. At least - and he cites legislation condemning Iran - it’s facilitating a hostile and destabilizing agenda.
Dodd is asked if actually blocking any spending is practical. Dodd suggests it isn’t, but says you can at least chasten the administration. He may as well have just said, “Really, we’re powerless … Vote for us!”
Those Damned Hypotheticals
Hillary is then asked a very direct question about principles. “Would the Israelis be justified if they bomb an Iranian nuclear site if they feel threatened?”
She dismisses it as a “hypothetical”. Russert insists it isn’t. She insists it is and then begins to try to mention the recent IDF bombing run into Syria and blame Bush in the process. He steers it back to her. She dodges. He says what Rudy directly said. She dodges again, and that closes it down.
Obama is asked. He says that diplomatic solutions are his emphasis, and lists a few - namely, the tactics of economic sanctions. Russert presses in, demanding to know whether he’ll promise the American people - like Rudy did - that there will be no Nuclear Iran. Obama says that the US under his watch will do “whatever is necessary.”
Good enough in a pinch. But it makes it very clear that no one wants to say flat out that they’ll bomb Iran.
Funny that they don’t, considering how big a hit McCain’s “Bomb Iran” song was.
Edwards is called on, and meanders off on a discourse about bad intelligence. He steers it back to a place near where Clinton was, which is nowhere near an answer. Russert moves on, likely realizing Edwards may as well be responding in Martian so far as hopes for an intelligible direct response are concerned.
Richardson, however, says, “Yes,” promising both a non-nuclear Iran /and/ a strong Israel. He says that international support’s been lacking in the past, and cites that he wants to talk to the moderates in Iran. That’s a nice idea, but if the Mullahs feel their moderates are being subverted, they’ll shut them down. I’m both dubious of his strategy and aware that, were it to work, it would be a delicate thing.
From that point on, Richardson refuses to say explicitly that he’d back an Israeli missile strike on Iran. We move along from then, skating onwards atop the sheen of sweat left by the candidates on the floor - all of whom just saw headlines flash before their eyes that cast them as the second coming of Barry Goldwater, or an anti-Semitic spaghetti-spined sellout.
Sanctuary Cities
The question is “are sanctuary cities kosher with you?”
Richardson essentially says, “Sure, and we need more funding to manage immigration.” He proposes giving precedence of legimitizing illegals before those “waiting in line” to become citizens. The question doesn’t stick.
It does stick to Biden, who notes that the INS needs more cash to do anything - that it’s even underfunded, let alone too small for the managing task asked of it. He then says, no, harboring illegals isn’t alright.
Dodd suggests immigration law reform first and foremost.
At this point, keeping things lively, Russert begins moving down the line and tapping each candidate pointblank in the dome with the question about sanctuary cities.
Not a one is going to answer. Obama too cites reforming immigration law and giving the INS more money for enforcement, but he ducks the question same as Dodd did. Hillary at least says, “there’s no choice” but for sanctuary cities to ignore the federal law. She notes the genuine concern that otherwise, illegal immigrants and any of their cohorts will refuse to speak with the police.
Gravel says he’s ashamed that the country’s keeping people out. Eh, whatever. Considering the condition of Mexico, open borders would be tantamount to open invitation, and with open voting as well, we’d not be far from reparations for the war of 1846. Viva Santa Ana.
Bush Sees All, Knows All
Russert’s next question is to give the candidates some breathing room, surely. He asks how Bush’s prognostications about Hillary clinching the nomination sit with them. I’ll be using this time to kick back and watch where this fluff piece flits.
Hillary gets an open mike for her position on health care. Most of it is a back and forth about the merits of her future plan compared to that of her former plan.
One thing worthwhile she mentions is that all the predictions adversaries of her past plan made as to what her plan would do, came about any way under the deregulated HMOs and private companies of the 90s. The disaster came about not because we adopted her plan, but because we didn’t. Maybe it would’ve been worse, but considering factors like the recent battle between the UAW and General Motors - in which GM had to pay through the nose for health care that its competitors don’t have to worry about, thanks to government-run care - it’s hard to imagine we need less, not more, government involvement in health.
Edwards plays the “born again health care candidate” card, after Russert notes that he’d dogged on it previously, even in ‘04. He does, however, seem ardent about it, and his plan has numbers. That’s more than most can say.
When it comes to Obama, the question’s not about health care. It’s about his experience. “Why,” Russert asks, “if 04 wasn’t the right time, is now the right time?”
He talks about how, right now, the country needs a leader like him. He in essence describes himself as a uniter. I could not agree more that is what’s needed, and that he measures up.
The Russert juggernaut rolls on.
He roasts Gravel for going bankrupt twice. Gravel somehow ties his 90K of debt being stuck to the credit card companies with an initiative to empower voters. I’m not buying it.
Kucinich’s Cleveland Mayorship - less than awesome, save that he was nearly killed by the mob and stuck to his principles, but unpopular all the same - is brought up. Dennis doesn’t even mention the mob hit. He does, however, say that people liked him battling for what he was elected on. That much is true. They just didn’t like the rest of him; at least not enough to bring him back to Cleveland’s city hall. They sent him on to the nation’s “city hall” instead, sixteen years or so later.
Richardson’s less-than-shining domestic liberal cred is challenged. Not surprisingly, he talks about his diplomatic experience.
The King And King
The candidates are asked if they would want their kids to be read, in second grade, a story about a prince marrying another prince.
Edwards says he’s all for it, and for getting rid of DOMA.
Obama says the same, and suggests it’s key to not feed people’s fears of each other.
Clinton takes it a step further, noting that feeding fears was critical to the last two Presidential electoral successes, and agreeing with the previous position.
Things move on after an entirely predictable 6 minutes.
Social Security Insecurity
Russert’s question is - “Will you adjust the Social Security qualifications or taxes?”
Biden is the first to be asked. He says, yes, he’d do something, and between cutting benefits or raising taxes, he’d go for raising the income cap for the taxes.
Hillary says that it’s all about balancing the budget. The heck it is. She also says bipartisan compromise and Presidential leadership is necessary. She says that before these things are implemented, /everything/ is off the table. No options.
Russert presses her on it. She says, again, “nope - nothing is on the table.” Guess we’ll have to wait until she’s out of office to get any proposals.
Obama takes the other tact - that everything is on the table, and he’ll get people together to sort it out.
Dodd says everybody’s getting too extreme about raising the cap, but says that’s the way to go.
Richardson talks about growing out of it, and just not spending so much that we need to raid Social Security. Even if his scheme to do this was based on selling all that “light equipment” in Iraq, he wouldn’t be able to pull that off. He calls 1.3% economic growth “pathetic” and claims he can make that up, and thereby finance Social Security. That’s a tall claim. Considering how he goes about planning for his other tall claim - getting the troops out of Iraq - I’m suspicious.
Edwards backs the idea of boosting the cap, but adjusting it such that the middle class is the group that’s capped - not the very wealthy. His range seems pretty narrow, but, indeed, we could use a stronger middle class.
Hillary finishes this round by again expressing the importance of fiscal responsibility. I feel it’s a distraction; fiscal responsibility only goes so far, especially when the debt is actually more good than harm in some ways, globally. Then she notes that the Democratic administrations have been better budget stewards than the GOP. This, I’m sad to admit, has been true since Carter passed over the reins.
But when she claims that she has “said where she stands” and what she’ll do about fixing social security - not just setting the table for the parties to sit down and discuss how to do it, but her ideas for doing it - I have to call foul. She spent a lot of time tonight explaining just how she /wasn’t/ going to say any such thing.
Banning Butts
The question is, “Would you support a national law to ban smoking?”
Hillary says that she isn’t, “at this point.”
Obama says “the local laws” should “play themselves out,” and are making great strides. He prefers the local.
Everybody else favors a national ban.
Keggy Loves You
The next question is, “Would you let the States decide the drinking age?”
The people of Dartmouth, where the debate is held and where their school mascot is “Keggy the Kegstand”, cheers.
Biden says that alcohol exacts a stiff health cost from this country - deformed babies, alcohol-related illness and crimes - and letting more people have better access to alcohol isn’t going to help that.
Dodd agrees. Richardson does too. They both float various ideas about rehab, education and law enforcement.
Only Gravel and Kucinich are all for lowering the drinking age - Gravel for a reason ripped from the pages of “Sgt. Rock” comics: Anyone old enough to fight should be old enough to drink. However, since it doesn’t naturally follow that not everybody old enough to fight will, but that plenty of people old enough to drink will, regardless of how they feel about serving their country, this is not so winning a rationale.
Kucinich makes the good point that leading kids by example through responsible drinking is better than telling them - and I quote - “thou shalt not” (an accidental Biblical double-negative, but whatever). This is true, but lowering the drinking age will not turn parents into examples of responsible drinking. It’ll just increase access to booze for the responsible and irresponsible alike. This means nothing more than a slight increase in alcohol related ills - certain disease and accidents - and gains - “Girls Gone Wild Videos”? I’m not sure.
And here we have Dennis Kucinich’s central flaw: He expects everybody is, at heart, Dennis Kucinich. And I don’t want to sound like Hobbes here - after all, I do believe in leading by example. But to make a stark generalization to poke a hole in Kucinich’s central spiritual thesis, there are actually two kinds of people in this world: Those who are or could strive to be as decent as Dennis, and those who will beat those people up and take their lunch money.
Lightning Round
Obama’s asked if “turning the page” means getting past the Bushes, Clintons or both. He says he means getting away from divisiveness, special interests and deceptions.
Clinton is asked whether the fact that 40% of Americans only knew a White House with a Bush or a Clinton in it is a good thing. She says Bill was a great President. As for me, I found that notion chilling. And yet, I liked Bush I and Clinton I. They’re not to blame.
It just goes to show - sequels always suck.
Biden’s asked if MoveOn.org has changed politics for the better. He says he doesn’t think they’ve changed politics. I agree. He says they’ve done some good things. Again, in agreement. And he indicates that they don’t “own” the party, contrary to a hubristic comment by their executive director, Eli Pariser. I’m still nodding. For honestly, MoveOn is not “the process”, it’s just part of it. And like any broad action committee with good intentions, it tried things both positive and negative.
At this point, the lightning round becomes a blur. Gravel, Kucinich and Edwards are asked questions. They get laughs.
Then we get to Obama’s excuse that he didn’t go to Jena and intervene in the racially divisive events there because he was busy trying to mitigate Iraq. My thoughts on Jena will be coming soon, but suffice it to say that anything - even “I had to be in Washington in order to not vote at all on the bill condemning MoveOn.org” - would have been fine by me.
On nuclear power, Edwards says “no go”, flat out. Obama says it’s an option. Kucinich says green energy alone can do it. Gravel thinks wind will be sufficient. Clinton’s with Obama - that nothing’s off the table.
Then comes a nutty question asking whether, if we had the number three guy in al-Q, he knew a bomb was going off somewhere and we knew it, the candidate would have him tortured for the information.
Obama says you just don’t sanction torture. Biden says the same. Clinton says the same.
But Bill doesn’t! It comes out that Bill had cooked up that zany scenario. Clinton is then demanded to say where she differs from Bill. She doesn’t specify.
I’m still wondering how, if we’re so certain about the bomb that we’re going to torture this guy, we haven’t found it already.
In any event, everybody agrees that you don’t abridge freedoms and torture and so on and so forth. Of course, most acts of war are in violation of these very principles, but the first three candidates were right - you can’t sanction that kind of truth.
Also, torture really /is/ unreliable. And when you use it as a policy, it does particularly dark things to your personnel and appearance. So it’s best to keep off the books.
From torture, to money - the next question is about whether Presidential Libraries should make public their dues. This one keeps many Americans up at night, surely. Everybody’s all for transparency, in a vague way.
Edwards is asked if he spends too much money on stuff. He says he started poor, and worked until he was rich. He’s right, and that’s all very nice for him. I think we should stop bothering rich people about their frivolities and expenses, and begin taxing them more. That will satisfy people’s hatred of “The Man” and feed the kitty.
Next, “What’s Your Favorite Bible Passage?”
Obama goes for “Sermon on the Mount”. Always a classic - the “Stairway to Heaven” of responses to this question. Empathy is the core of it, and Obama says he wants to restore.
Clinton - “the golden rule”. Gravel doesn’t really have one. Dennis has a quote from St. Francis, which is close - “Lord, make me an instrument of your peace”. Richardson goes for the Sermon on the Mount too. And Dodd for “the good Samaritan”. Edwards opts for “that which you do to the least of us, you do to me.” A fine notion, but nothing you want to govern by.
Biden goes for “the warning of the Pharisees.” Nice. Hardcore, Joe.
Then comes “Yankees or Red Sox”. And me, I’m a football fan, and I’m running late for Sloppy Joes and college ball. This post is over.